Teach Wonder
Teach Wonder
To See What It's Like to Be An Active Member of Your Community
In its simplest form, today's interview focuses on the program Connections that Count. It partners Central Michigan University undergrads with people with disabilities. More realistically, this podcast episode is about building a community that is based on respect and care; one that brings out the best in others and holds members accountable. Building communities like that take time and work. Dr. Holly Hoffman shares details about this program and tells us why it's important to foster that sense of community.
Links:
Connections that Count
Music: David Biedenbender
Find us on social media:
Instagram: cmichcese
Facebook: cmich_cese
Are you feeling the joy? So it's getting darker earlier, and it's staying darker, longer. And it's that time of year when the new backpacks we purchased in August are showing signs of mud from waiting on the sidewalk and snags from getting caught and car doors. lunchboxes have lost their fresh and new smell after being left under a seat or worse in a locker of the weekend, if you know, you know. And generally this is the time of the year when the busyness of fall activities and the waning of school shiny Beginnings is maybe leaving us all in a general fall malaise. I know I am I'm feeling that shininess has worn off a little bit. So this episode is perfect timing. It's a reset button for all of us. Dr. Holly Hoffman is faculty in the Human Development and Family Studies program at CMU. She's taught a variety of classes. In fact, she taught several of my special education courses during my undergrad. But it's currently focused on her term in the child development and learning lab, the preschool that we're lucky enough to share a building with. Holly isn't here to talk about those things, particularly however, she's here to share a model begun by Dr. Joan Hogan, and stewarded by Holly, and we brought her here to your ears for a few reasons. Number one, Holly is contagious. Her enthusiasm and joy are going to infuse your day with all things wonderful. And number two, she is walking this thoughtful line that we've talked about a few times before. connections that count the program, she'll talk about more in a minute, brings individuals with disabilities are on campus for community. They do this through food and activity and lots of communication. And this group is doing this in a way that is respectful and incredibly thoughtful. And it's fun. We've mentioned in a few episodes about some changes or alluded to some changes in the disability community. As we listen more to the ideas and preferences of people who are living an experience, we understand better what they want to support and language and education, what they want it all to look like. Which is not always the same as the systems put in place by specialists and professionals. So in thinking about some of the changes that are happening in that community, it's really easy as with anything to get so consumed by what not to do, how not to talk, what not to say, and it can be difficult to think about what to do. So what does a healthy and thoughtful space look like one that centered around people with disability? And what does that look like in a way that listens to respects and cares about participants, but it's also infused with joy. As you listen to Holly today she'll share an overview of the program. She'll discuss how they think about volunteers and participants and families, what the structure looks like and how they manage to be such a positive and community focused group with the expected turnover that comes from a student led organization. Later in the episode we Escali about how this group stays in tune with participants, their families and the disability community. You won't want to miss her answers. This episode is one that has a lot to teach us all. And Holly's passion and excitement are exactly the energy that has been missing from my mid fall vibe. I hope you enjoy this as much as Julia and I did.
Julie Cunningham:So we're here with Hallie Hoffman today, and I probably worked with you 10 years ago, or 12 years ago now when we did that boomerang project, right with firewall why? And you were actually even in a different department than I was. Yeah, one that is appropriate to talk about today. Because you're still involved with connections that count. Yeah. So can you share a description with us for our listeners about connections that count? And maybe a little about the history and current rules?
Dr. Holly Hoffman:Absolutely. Yes. So I get to work with Connections that Count, so we're a service learning organization. And so we get to work with individuals in the community that have different types of disabilities, a wide range of ages, we have some participants who are I think our youngest is seven. And then we go up into early 30. Some of our participants are that age. And we work on socialization skills on friendship, skills on language, getting some physical development. And so we have partnerships between individuals with disabilities in our community, and then college students. So we have students from all different leaders. So freshmen, regular ed, we have people that want to be a doctor. So they're looking at pre med types of things. Perhaps nursing, we have accounting business, so a wide range of majors of college students that want to work with individuals who have disabilities. And so we come together, have a great time and we plan these fun activities and then build our skills build skill building within that. So we really enjoy doing that. This all started back in 2002. One of my co workers, Joanie Hogan started this whole journey so I'm so grateful for that. I got to work with her at the time we both worked in the accounting and special ed department here at CMU. Johnny got a call about a me Is your car accident that took place here in Mount Pleasant, and there was a mom that was in that car who was very hurt in that accident, and she had a son with Angelman syndrome. So we had a lot of different types of needs. And so this family really needed help. So reach out to Joanie, who seems to know everybody in this town, and knows lots of resources. So Joanie pulled together some college students and said, Hey, let's do something great for this family. So they work together to provide care to help this young man, get on the bus in the morning, get off the bus in the afternoon, after school help with dinner help with evening activities, getting ready for bed, really, all his care was really taken care of, because of the students who around the clock took care of this young man's needs while his mom was recovering. So they got all down. They did that for 21 weeks, God always says that they said, Okay, what are we going to do next after mom that better? Let's do some more so and then it came into this whole idea of connections account in our community. So let's branch that out and work with more individuals and families who are impacted by disability. So yeah, we started with families find you or how to do mostly word of mouth. So sometimes we will we have individuals that work in agencies, in the community of the ask questions, we have current participants that tell you to tell other people. So we have It's on our website, on the CMU websites, we put everything out there. So families are welcome to check it out. And it might not be for them, they can check it out anytime, and see if they want to most people stay, we're lucky for that. They seem to really enjoy it. And so mostly word of mouth, we also will tell teachers about it. I've had students work on making sure people knew. So she went and reached out to all the special ed teachers make sure they knew what was going on. And we've gone, we had tons of participants right before COVID hit. And then we transitioned to connections, zoom, was our new name for several years. So we did that. And so we're really fortunate, but then people who didn't have technology that didn't really work or so for some people, it's hard to sit for the whole hour. And so we went incorporate some activities were getting up and moving. That was more of a challenge. And then when we came back, we were slowly rebuilding. So we have probably 45 participants now. But we we've been really lucky.
Julie Cunningham:And what is your capacity? Like? What are what is your do, I really have
Dr. Holly Hoffman:We don't really have a cut, no, don't really have a cut, we would just look at our activities. And you know, for example, we get to come to the STEM center pretty, pretty soon. So we're just creative, Holly scheduled that. And we have more and more volunteers that keep coming, I got another email this morning, hey, I want to join this come on down, they do the record, check and fill out the forms and they join. So we feel really, really fortunate.
Ashley O'Neil:When you think about the activities that you're building, what makes what types of activities are important to your your students or your audience. So you've got like your college students who are coming to this because it fulfills a need or an interest in them. And then you have your young adults or your your K 12 students who are coming because it's interesting or meets a need for them. And then also parents or families, it's immediate need that and that trick. So how do you figure out what types of activities are important to them? Sure,
Dr. Holly Hoffman:we do that in several ways. We ask our participants, what would you like to do. So I had a participant last year who was very into sidewalk chalk very into being outside. So we make sure we always have outside time when weather permitting was outside of time lately, which has been great. And so we asked our participants what they would like to do, we also send surveys out to the families and ask them when we see them at pickup and drop off. And so no often tell us what their students love to do lots of bowling, that was a big hit was bowling, we don't have our bowling alley anymore on campus. So we're gonna modify that we have had lots of interest in our party. So we had a Halloween party last week, because we thought participants would want to be in their own neighborhoods on actual Halloween. And they loved it. They loved all the games and dressing up. We have our talent show we have at the end of every semester. And that is very well attended and lots of lots of excitement about that. Over at the SEC, they have an accessible stage. So we utilize the lifts, make sure anybody who needs that are able to get up on the stage. And so this year we expanded it or didn't do a family talent show. So we're inviting families to come and participate with that. And so that has been great. So it's been a combination of our students who are volunteering, what would they like to plan? What would they like to do? What do we have access to? What would we manage them all? And then talking to our families and our participants? What do you want to do when you come here? Know what sounds good to you. So we have changed a couple of things in that before the pandemic we had restaurants that donated all the food that because we start with dinner and then move into an activity And so we felt after the pandemic, we just didn't feel right asking restaurants who had struggled so much coming back from the pandemic, to do that. So we have a food team right now. And so they are the Food Team, ask the participants, what would you like for dinner. So we get a lot of chicken nugget requests, let's get a request. So they put together a great meal. And so they, they provide that and then we move on to activity. So it really, we don't have like a set way that we determine we really are flexible. And we see what is what the interest is. So the climbing wall is always a hit. The bowling is always a hit in the talent show are huge parties. They know that we can do that
Julie Cunningham:sort of thing flexible, and I have not interacted I think maybe twice with connections that count in the MakerSpace. So not not a lot. But what I noticed is what a community you've built, right? I mean, I met a lot of moving parts. seven year olds, 30 year olds, right families, college students, you know, a handful of other adult facilitators. So what do you think it is? What's the magic? Is it the meal you eat together? Or what's the
Dr. Holly Hoffman:I think it's a combination, I think there's a spirit about it, we hope to offer a really welcoming environment. And I think everybody feels included, and I hope they feel celebrated. We're really clear when we have the volunteer orientation, if this is something that you're doing just fulfill a requirement and you plan to be on your phone, this is not the right fit for you. If you want to come and have a lot of fun and be fully engaged, and really mindful and purposeful, great, come on. And same with our families, like if your participant is ready to have some fun and engage, awesome, we would love for you to talk with us about what are ways that we can provide optimal environment for your participant. And if you'd like to stay you are more than welcome. It was funny a couple of years ago, I noticed that there was a group of families, that parents that were sitting out in the lobby, we were over the sack, and I went up there and I said, Hey, would you like me to plan like a speaker or like a site activity that you could do while your youth are here and this and they're like, Oh, we just want to hang out? Like, we just want to connect together, like Okay, so there's a whole sense of community among the parents, which is awesome, the caregivers. And then again, among the volunteers, they're very tightly knit group, this group right now is amazing, they are on it. If if opportunity comes up, they're like, let's do it. Come on. So we've added new things. We did the homecoming parade for the first time this year, they were so excited. So we had a everybody other volunteers came into my house and we decorated the flow. We got that all set, we had one of my colleagues, let us use her trailer, and we had a participant that had a truck. So it all worked out. So we had a great time. So next year, we're going to do that again. And again, that is based on I think we're a group that listens to our participants and listens to our volunteers and really thinks it's an important time we were intentionally wanting to build positive memories. So we think about that with that we have an end of the year banquet. And we realized that some of our participants, this might be the only word that they've ever received. And we I feel really strongly that when they're walking up rolling up to get their award that they are clapping for like crazy. I want them to be so excited about what is going on. And I want that family to be in the audience excited for their child. So we feel really strongly about that. And so we got a dance floor last time, and we had a great time. And then we give out awards. Yep. The call who is one of our participants who will not miss a concession stand at the football games. That's how we do a fundraiser at the CMU football games. This girl is dedicated the club you're listening to me, you're an awesome volunteer, and she loves to be on the concession stand and help raise money for connections. And so she got the concession stand clean. Like I say that's her award. She does not miss. She loves to Yeah, she has a great time. So I think we build community. That's a long winded answer to how we build community. I think we take things seriously and we group together. We work if it's at the consistency and we had fun with it. If it's even an activity, we have fun, and we would try to be intentional. We We are very glad that you were there. And you'll be sorely missed if you're gone. So
Ashley O'Neil:So I know that you mentioned the pre med students, all sorts of people. I think in my brain, I'm focusing a little bit more on your teacher education students, but maybe everybody, but I know that they get a lot out of their time as connection participants and volunteers. So can you talk a little bit about why that's important for future teachers but future adult shooters?
Dr. Holly Hoffman:Absolutely. Absolutely. We love to provide an environment where students can see what it's like to be a really active part of your community. You So that's a senior committee that's about we have students who the bus over from firewall, so high schoolers from Bible come over talking about the boomerang opportunity that we got to do a lifetime go deal. And I and that was really great chance to meet Bill some great connections. So we I want them to have opportunities to see what that what tenses there are, how, what are different ways that I that they, as an educator could connect in their community, and be inclusive and be supportive. And so some people say, well, I might wander into special ed, we're all going into communities where we have lots of different participants where we have lots of different members of our community. So I don't mean, if you're not going to be a special ed leader, I want you to know the skills to support every single person that rules or walks into your environment. If you're a business owner, if you're at your church, if you're at the park, I want you to know how to be supportive and inclusive. So I really think that they learn ways to build positive bridges with family members and with someone who may learn differently than they do. So I hope that that rings true. And they continue that. So it's been neat, because some people they graduate and they go and they say they go into a school, and they say I want to do something like connections that count in my school. Can you help me? Absolutely. We've had other universities reach out, we want to do something like that, you know, with? Absolutely. So we hope that it's a model, we have tons of things that we can improve and be better about and up and offer. I hope that the whole idea is something that other people can utilize.
Julie Cunningham:And I just say that for the stomach scholars who work with the connections that count students and families when they come into the MakerSpace. And that's only once a semester. Right. But that is maybe one of the only opportunities a general education student would have to work with the participants with different learning abilities. Right. Sure. And so and I think that they have so much fun, they enjoy themselves. And they see that although they might be in a general ad regularized classroom when they graduate, right, that all of these people are successful in this space, and having a good time and able to participate. And I just think that's so mean, we just have students sign up just today, for connections that count on that they sign up on the board. This is my favorite event every semester. Because I think, I think additionally, right? It's a it's a larger community and even then,
Dr. Holly Hoffman:Oh, that's great, thanks.
Ashley O'Neil:Okay, so often we have young students or young adults who have a disability or are underestimated in spaces, as particularly when those spaces are hands on the makerspace is hands on, but that not just makerspace. So how do we continue to provide those authentic experiences for all students? And then what types of considerations or questions should individuals be asking? Okay,
Dr. Holly Hoffman:that's a great question, I think it's really important to get information from, say you have a participant that might need different kinds of accommodations, to ask them what they would like. And if you could also get input from the family member, or what works at school, I think that can be really helpful. So that can be consistent. I feel like if you can think of ways to be creative, that's a huge part of it. And just asking, you know, what would what would you like? How would you like this to look? What would be how can I help? If would you like help first? And, you know, what can I do that can be helpful for you? And so some people will say, I just want to I want to sit where everybody else is sitting? Or I just I just want to turn? I just want a chance. Yeah, we all want to turn in a chance. Absolutely. So I think that I talk a lot about being really respectful with your listening with your eye contact with your tone. So I say this a lot. Like we have some of our participants are, say 25 or 30. And they love to color coloring as he sought to hit right, you know, with all the coloring books. So I'm so grateful for these adult coloring books, because I'll say to students do not pick a preschool activity. As a coloring book, this person is 25, this person was 30. They don't need to color something that's made for someone that's three. So make sure to be aware of that. So I think asking a lot of questions and saying, you know, what do you entail? What do you like doing? You know, what, what, what are ways that I could help? Would you like help? Could I help you? Okay, what can I do to help you with this? And I think they love the makerspace because this is like big league, like they're making things light up and work and they get to be creative, and there's not like a product they have to make. It's not like a swan set way. Hopefully they are. They're celebrating the journey, not just what you know, is at the end, and I think that they see this up on place like you all create such an environment. Eric come on in, they get to walk in, there's like, like, right? When you walk in, there's Legos and like the 3d printer and all this like, Whoa, I think they they love that. And they think, Wow, it really matters if I'm hearing that. And I get to I get to do this like everybody else. Awesome. Let's do it.
Julie Cunningham:Yeah. And I think I agree with you obviously wholeheartedly, and not, not that it has to be the MakerSpace. But sometimes, I think people are reluctant to take students to such an open ended on such an open ended field trip or an open ended experience, right, because we maybe don't feel like we have as much control over. But for us, it's the process that's important, not the product. So to me, that naturally says anyone can participate in a process because you can enter the process wherever it is that you feel comfortable entering the process, right. So disability rights and advocacy are constantly changing, and how does connections that count participate and learn as a program in that continued education? And I think even probably not even the people who run connections that count necessarily, but you have a lot of volunteers coming and going, how do you
Dr. Holly Hoffman:lead them? Absolutely, we make sure that we have really open lines of communication with the families and with the teachers, and with especially majors and we also work we're really lucky to collaborate with students in the Disability Studies program. So they partnered up with us last semester, and then our continuing. So that's been great. And so when I felt like it flowed pretty smoothly when Johnny and I were both in the counseling special ed department, because we would teach about those things, right. And so now as we have both we're neither of us are in there anymore. I think it's up to us to stay current on guidelines and
Ashley O'Neil:your ears for a few reasons. And we do have showing signs of mud from the sidewalk and the snags in cotton corridors,
Dr. Holly Hoffman:communication with our families just start over sharing ideas as well. And so I think it's time for open communication. So we have, we do have meetings with the volunteers. And so we have an orientation. We have, like an open roundtable, we have an app on our phone. So everybody can talk. If we if we want to or need to, or we have open minds throughout, there was an idea to have, like a hangout time with families like can we have something extra so we can just have time to visit with the families? And what's going on with your family? How's it going? What can we do to be more supportive, things like that, in the Disability Studies program really has helped they they asked us if what could they do to help. And so they came and interviewed all of the volunteers and the vision and the mission. And they talked to the families as well. So that was really cool. It's okay, I can share it with you. So they came up with a vision for us. And we'd love this like it really well, to dismantle attitudinal physical and structural barriers to promote social inclusion, through education, awareness, advocacy in the greater mount, pleasant community and beyond. So we really appreciated that vision, we're like, wow, this really, this really fits us like that we kind of we knew what we were doing, we fill out the exciting things that we love doing. But then they help label it right and put our wrap us in this blanket of support for our vision. So we'd love that. Our mission is to positively engage with the disability community, by creating an environment focused on fostering friendship and educating and advocating for inclusion and accessibility. So we felt really lucky. So that's a group that's been really informative and helpful with us. Vector girl she is she started that whole program. And then she came, she's come a couple of times to connection since she she's done that in years past as well. And so that's great. She brought her gel pens and was a hit with all the colors. She was there, they were pink, instantly. So that was great. So we I feel like we have opened door where we have people that are really helping us stay current and informed about what's best practices and how we can be optimal. And some of our participants talk about it. And some of our families share with us as well. So I feel like people feel comfortable to share their ideas. And we can stay current on what's needed and what's right for our participants.
Julie Cunningham:I obviously, people feel heard or they wouldn't keep coming back. Right and and feeling like they could trust you and share with you. And I I'm just struck by how often in other situations, those voices are lost or families aren't included. Right, and how important that must be to families that you are including it. I've heard you say that any number of times in this podcast. And I think that parents must really be grateful for that. And we're
Dr. Holly Hoffman:so grateful for the parents and the families who share with us. I mean, this is their, their student, their child like they let us into their lives and they let us pretty sweet and we weren't lucky ones like they, they trust us to you know, to participate with us and I'm really grateful. I've learned so much from our families. And so we have like we have a participant that has had I'm really, really hard time with his health, he's in the hospital. And so all the participants wanted to make something. And suddenly they made this bouquet of cards. And so Joe is one of the fertility facilitators he drafted off for the family. And so mom ticket to the hospital, and she sent me pictures right away. He ballsy, he, you know, he's grateful. Thank you so much. And so then I got to send that out on the app. So everybody knew what was going on. And so we hope that people find this as a space and for safety and support, either here at CMU when they come to visit or beyond in their home, or if there's bumps in the roads.
Ashley O'Neil:So we have a lot of teachers and educators of all kinds who are listening to us today and have probably heard statements, or just I think that your attitude and ideas is pretty pervasive. And just the energy they used to talk with us, which is just lovely. But what advice would you give to those educators, those individuals who are interested in learning more about the topic systems discussed today, and maybe specifically to me anyway, about like your, your approach and how you, you create this inclusive community? Sure.
Dr. Holly Hoffman:Anybody is welcome to come and visit, do background check, and you can go check them over of our crew. And so we're happy to talk about it. Sometimes we'll go to say conferences like Michigan Council for Exceptional Children, we've gone and done a couple presentations about how we work and how we transition to online and how do we work with family. So we are happy to share so anybody can connect? You know, if anybody has questions directly, they're welcome to do that. I think having an open mind and thinking about what can we do here? You look we do in our past, in our, in our community? What could we do? What are the possibilities? So just sitting down and thinking about what they probably have so many assets they're not thinking about at that time? But sit down? And what would be something really creative? What would be helpful? Who would want to be at the table when we talked about something like this? Who might be some participants that would really benefit? Who the some families that might want to be a part of this conversation? So I think having an open mind and asking questions, I remember, I remember the very first time I taught intro to Special Ed and I'm standing up at that time, there's like 200 people in the room and I thought, What in the world? What if he asked me a question, I don't know. And I was so stressed about that at the beginning. And I thought, I'm not walking Google. I don't know everything. So, like, if someone asked me something I said, You know what? That's an excellent question. I don't know what I'll find out. Right. And so I think it's okay to not know everything. Some people I think, are so nervous that they have to know all the stuff of how to support every student. We don't know. That's questions. It's okay to ask questions. Okay, not to know, and say, Could you help me a little bit more with this? I would love to start a program like this. Could you help me with some ideas, asking for help? I think it's, I read an article that was saying asking for help is a superpower, I fully agree. We want to act like we've got it all together all the time. So don't it's okay to ask questions and say, this is pretty cool. Like, you know, how could I do something like this on a different in a different way? At our facility? Or how could we do a mini version of this during the school day? Or how can we, how can we ramp this up? Do a statewide, you know, there's so many ways that we can learn from each other? Asking questions and being open to responses, I think is a huge part.
Ashley O'Neil:I like that because I think it you walk this really fine line of you totally honor, the assets, and the knowledge and the skills and the things that your participants bring to the group as much as you are future educators. So there's not that some, we're doing this favor for you. It's that we're a community. Everybody is benefiting? Everybody?
Dr. Holly Hoffman:Absolutely. Absolutely. We did a survey of our volunteers, we've done uh, you know, we're in the car settings, we like studies, a lot of different studies. And so one that came back is that we asked the volunteers, you know, what, why did you sign up for this? And they thought, originally, they said, Well, I really wanted to give to my community, I wanted to be really helpful. But what they found was, the impact that the participants was having on them was so much more than what they could even begin to imagine giving back. So it's been really, really neat. They got they rated themselves and the rating was so much higher for what they received from the participants than what they thought the other way around. So it was really me. That
Julie Cunningham:was a valuable lesson as Oh, and how do you get away from ever like having it like that deficit thinking like, it reminded me of when you said the volunteers show up thinking that they're really going to give back and then understand that they get more like, how does it just automatically get away from thinking like I'm doing this for somebody who has a disability or is there I think, how does that
Dr. Holly Hoffman:at orientation we're really clear like this is a positive group. This is Um, this is an opportunity to celebrate and to accept everyone as they are and look at their strengths. And so we don't ever talk about the negatives. And when we talk about, like, if someone's got some behavior or something that we need to make sure that we're supportive, or we're going to, if they're really scared of something, we're not gonna go there, or we could have health issues, things like that, of course, and making sure that everyone feels safe. We don't we don't go we don't go into okay, this is what's wrong with them. And then we've got on the on their name tags, we on the bat, we have a sticker with like, any kind of thing we need to know for health wise, you know, if epilepsy Yeah, emergency kind of thing. Epilepsy is something you know, something like that, then we have a plan. And everybody knows the plan, if we need an EpiPen, or those types of things. So we talked about the needs, we don't talk about, like a deficit model of these people. These are awesome people. This is this is this person's name, this is what we're gonna call this person, and we're gonna celebrate when this first thing gets here. And that's what we're gonna do. And so we don't look at it as at all Yeah, we have Syntel. With this, this really doesn't matter.
Julie Cunningham:Come on in as you are. And you may or may not want to include any of this conversation, because I really was just curious that because we tend to do that I think education and education, right, we just talk about sure how many special needs students we have in our classroom, or how much we love time they take
Ashley O'Neil:efficiency. I'm going to jump in here because Julian Holly, and I got pretty excited. And there was a lot of talking over each other, and it became a little hard to understand. So what we're talking about here is how we as practitioners sometimes talk about students, we label them, we label them with information from their IEP, maybe we label them with a service that they receive through Title funds. And we develop some sort of code and maybe co opting the word like special friends, to discuss a student in our room. And oftentimes, we're trying to use that label to transmit a whole bunch of context and information in a very short amount of time in a very short amount of space. Maybe it comes from a place of efficiency, but it's not strength based, and it's not humanizing. It also isn't the clear descriptor that we often think it is, if you're not in a system, you don't know what those words are. And if we're trying to be inclusive to everybody, shouldn't the words and phrases we use be as inclusive. So Holly's approach with our students may seem different than some practices you're familiar with? And that's okay. Our ask is that you reflect on what practices you use in your school community. And think about how those actually play out for your students and families.
Julie Cunningham:Is there anything that we missed or that you would like to share today, in addition to what we talked about?
Dr. Holly Hoffman:I will, I'm just really grateful that you asked me to come and share about the script that I think is really important, I love it. And so thank you for being open minded to listen, we hope to be the ever growing and ever evolving group. So as I said, we'd like to try new things. So we tried the parade. And it was really fun. We had a great time. And to watch some of our participants in that environment was so much fun, some really came alive and that I get to throw candy. People might not add people to people. So we worked on how to safely do that. And some people that were kind of nervous. I've never done in praying before. That's okay. Let's just give it a really, yes. So, so we had we had this truck. And so if you weren't comfortable on the back of the truck, or if you weren't comfortable on that trailer, on the flow, then here, here's the vaccine, because I'm sitting here so I have participant that was most more comfortable with the window rolled up most of the way. But then when he got more comfortable, the roll came down, and then he was throwing candy out at the back of the other tracks. So we we listen to students and I'd say where are you most comfortable and see with our mentors, with our volunteers, if they're not comfortable getting up there and going up everybody, that we have people that are more comfortable, you know, behind the scenes. So we joke that with our talent show we have a lot of background singers and so they are all about supporting our students and let's help them move forward and be comfortable. So