We're continuing our conversation on assessment with multi-age teacher, Tammy Clingenpeel. We talk about making "just in time" accommodations, how to differentiate assessment within a fixed curriciulum, and how Tammy's teaching has changed over time. This episode is a thoughtful reflection from a thoughtful teacher. We know you'll love it.
Intro Music: David Biedenbender
Other Music: Pixabay
Find us on social media:
Instagram: cmichcese
Facebook: cmich_cese
We're continuing our conversation on assessment with multi-age teacher, Tammy Clingenpeel. We talk about making "just in time" accommodations, how to differentiate assessment within a fixed curriciulum, and how Tammy's teaching has changed over time. This episode is a thoughtful reflection from a thoughtful teacher. We know you'll love it.
Intro Music: David Biedenbender
Other Music: Pixabay
Find us on social media:
Instagram: cmichcese
Facebook: cmich_cese
Okay, now we're recording so welcome to teach, wonder. Welcome to teach wonder podcast hosted by Ashley O'Neal, and Julie Cunningham. You ever get into a classroom and just like the vibe you walk in, and it's somehow both energetic and calm, where kids are active and talking, but also focused and working, I asked our next guest on this podcast to talk assessment because of that vibe. I'm always in awe of teachers that create an environment where multiple things are happening, and students are all busy doing their own thing, but it's also somehow on task. It's such a hard balance to get right. Our guests Tammy teaches in a multi age classroom. So juggling different content and ages and ability levels has become a dance that she practices a lot. And I wanted to talk to her about assessment because while she's definitely not alone, in the challenge of assessing students with a wide set of skills and goals and unified approach, I had a chance to see it in action and feel the vibe and I was struck. We've been having discussions about assessment in our last few episodes. And this one addresses assessment and gets it a question I wrestled with a lot when I was teaching. When does learning end? And when does assessment begin? I know formative assessments imply that you check in on learning along the way, the idea of summative kind of implies that the learning has ended and you're like, here you go prove what you've got. But then I think about children and what we know about development. And just because a skill isn't mastered by the end of the spelling week, or the history chapter, or even the marking period, it doesn't mean that that window is actually shot for that kid. So is there a place to do just in time learning with the students within the context of a set curriculum? To honor what is that a student's learning can keep happening even after my curriculum calendar says it's time to move on. Here's Tammy.
Tammy Clingenpeel:My name is Tammy Clingenpeel. And I started teaching a long time ago. My first teaching job was kindergarten. And I really enjoyed it. And then from kindergarten, I went into first grade. And then I took a break and was substitute teaching for about oh, I don't know, seven, eight years. And then I went back into teaching. And I started teaching a third and fourth grade combination class at the school I'm teaching it now. And then I went from third and fourth grade to I believe it was just fourth grade. And then from fourth grade, I went to fifth and fifth and sixth grade. And then from fifth and sixth grade I went to believe it or not, they put me in preschool slash High School slash assistant principal. And then from there, I went to fourth, fifth and sixth grade for 11 years. And then from fourth, fifth and sixth grade the last. This is my third year just doing fifth and sixth grade. So quite a variety.
Ashley O'Neil:So like all of the grades really just like preschool all the way through the dasher Foundation put in. Yes, yes. What do you l ike where you're teaching now this grade level?
Unknown:Yes,
Ashley O'Neil:I do. Yeah, it seems I liked the younger students when I was a first like first teaching like that first grade was great for me. And I feel like as I've gotten a little bit older, I have a new appreciation or more of an appreciation for the upper elementary students that fifth and sixth grade than I ever used to. So they're they're kind of fun secretly, yes,
Tammy Clingenpeel:I find benefits from all of the ages. But I find this age is you can do a lot more.
Ashley O'Neil:Sure. So obviously, there's been some changes to your teaching practices over time, just because you're in different grade levels. But what are some changes that you've made to your practices over time?
Tammy Clingenpeel:I've, I've always done a lot of hands on. But I've become a lot more hands on activities, and a lot more science and STEM activity related. And a lot more user imagination type activities trying to get that implemented.
Ashley O'Neil:And where do you where do you think that comes from? Tammy? I think it comes from learning.I think partly is because I started getting frustrated and bored. I literally was going to leave teaching about eight years ago because I was still just kind of like over it. And I. And then I joined the Civil Air Patrol and started getting the stem kits, and kind of found a new way to approach some learning and having some fun, and still implementing all the learning practices. And I think that's what changed it. And then I got involved with CMU and the makerspace, and invention convention and other things. And I've just learned a lot more to bring things into the classroom. So I think the hands on has really changed, and allowing students a little more freedom as well. Yeah, that makes sense. So with that in mind, do you teach all grades I break? Is that correct? Do you teach all grades? So what are some ways that you assess your students?
Tammy Clingenpeel:I do typical test and quizzes. Just because that is the curriculum that we follow. But along with that we I do group projects I do. We do oral presentations, we do memorization, so they're doing. They memorize historical documents, and then they'll present them to the class orally. They do. Oh, let me see. I'm trying to think sometimes we'll just have a powwow. And then the kids can do these presentations on their own, how are you going to present this information, and then they'll go ahead and go and do that, I will often give them criteria that they have to meet. And then there'll be evaluated on that criteria. Sometimes there'll be a rubric that they have to follow. So kind of what you're looking at. Yeah,
Ashley O'Neil:that's totally what I'm looking at. I think it sounds to me like, you do a lot of mix and matching. So what content you're trying to assess drives how you choose to assess them. Does that feel accurate? Yes, yes. And so from that, and some of it is also driven by the curriculum that you have at your school, right? So chapter tests in the curriculum or whatnot, you're going to get better? Do you feel like you learn different things from the different types of assessments or like, like, how do you view them? And let me give you an example. So when I was teaching fourth grade, we did like reading assessments that were really tight. And what I mean by tight is, you would assess their words permanent to read time them and see how quick they were. And then we had these really specific questions that we asked because we were looking for, did they catch the character? Did they understand the main idea? Did they compare contrast rates or really specific focus types of assessments. And that would be very different information from a timed multiplication test, which would tell me very different information from a presentation when it was a much more complex project for the students. And for me, so I could learn about their speaking skills, I could learn about group project skills, I could learn about their research skills, right. So I learned really different things from my students. Do you find that when you assess as well?
Unknown:Yes, a lot of times, when I am testing with standard regular tests for the curriculum, the quizzes tend to have more of a focus on the content that we've just covered. Whereas if we're doing a test, the test is more over like an entire chapter. Sometimes our curriculum will do a test over like five chapters. And I'm like, seriously, these kids are in fifth and sixth grade, do they really need to be tested on such a broad span of information. So what I'll do is I'll kind of make like a challenge of it. And I'll say, Alright, I'm going to let you pick groups and work on this I get, you're going to use your book, you get to use your history notes that we've created. And you get to work together and complete this as a task. Because I think then they're one learning how to use their notes, and their book to find information, and to talk and to work as a team. And sometimes when you have the smarter kids, they'll often want to just blurt all the answers. And so I stress to them. You need to Yes, work with your partner, but you can't give them all the answers. And you can't even just show them where the answers are in their notes. You can hint that it might be on this page or stuff like that, so that they're learning and also teaching other students how to find the information as well. Because not only do I have different grade levels, but then you all also have different learning levels as well in your grade, because in my grade with fifth and sixth grade, I have some students who are probably a second grade reading level. And then I have some kids that are high school reading level. And so to have them do the same test, you can't evaluate the same way. And so if I have them work together as a team, sometimes, then they're learning from each other, not just me.
Ashley O'Neil:Now, that makes a ton of sense. And I think you're right that I mean, any group, you're going to have disparity or the difference in ability level. But not only that, but yours is explicit, you know, you've got fifth and sixth graders, and you've got different sets of standards. So if they're reading the same book, you might be focusing on different things for your fifth graders a little bit versus what you're doing with your sixth graders.
Tammy Clingenpeel:Right
Ashley O'Neil:Yeah, that makes sense. Um, I'm sure I can hear challenges. If I was in your classroom, and I was teaching, I can hear challenges that I would have. But what are some challenges that you have when it comes to assessing your students?
Unknown:Um, I think the hardest thing that I have when I'm assessing the students is the trying to find the differentiated testing for the students. Because sometimes you get so involved in what is being expected of you as a teacher, from the curriculum. And then for the report, report cards, and then for the parents to see, or for the administration to see. And yet I want the student to be successful as well. And so learning how, as a teacher to step back and say, this student can show me what he knows without having to do 100% of this work, but maybe just 50% Or maybe even just 40%. And picking and choosing and making sure the work that they're doing is still the content that needs to be evaluated, but just not as much, and still making that child feel his worth as well. Yeah,
Ashley O'Neil:I mean, that that makes a ton of sense. And that is you're right. They don't make assessments that are multipacks, for you to pick for your classroom. And so it's like you have to do, you have done a lot of the work of knowing your students individually. And so does that sometimes look like each kid may get the similar looking paper, but what they do on that paper is all different.
Tammy Clingenpeel:Correct? Like, for example, on a language science assignment we just did the other day, one of my students, I could tell, first and foremost, it was overwhelming. So right away, I eliminated half of it. He started working and he was still a little overwhelmed, you could see that look in his face. So I said to him, I said, all right. Let me see your paper. And then I circled the ones that I thought were the most important. This type of sentence you need to know. So I'm going to have him do this, this, this and this. So I eliminated another 25%. And said, I want to see your what you can do with this. And so then he was able to complete the task. And yet his paper was the same exact papers, everybody else's. It's just I had circled what he needed to do. And, and I always stress in my class, we don't make fun of people because they have different learning papers or different learning assignments. Because everybody has different things that they're strong at. Some people are strong at math, some are strong in language. Some are good in reading, some are good at singing, some are good at sports, but we're all good at something. And we can all be of use when it comes to certain things in life. And one more in the classroom, those different things will be brought out in different ways. And so we're just
Ashley O'Neil:Yeah, I feel like I got to see that play out in your classroom. When I've been there. I was there feel like you were wrapping up maybe religion and math. And there were some it was like a transition time happening. And it seemed very much like Well, first of all, you make use of your board a little bit where what students are working on is kind of coded up on the board next to their name, right? It's like a whole group, transparent way to keep track of who needs to work on what assignment that's been out in the classroom. And you were kind of bumping around to each group. And I could hear you making like on the spot accommodations or changes to students assignments. I remember you had a student kind of verbally tell you the problem and then you wrote it down for them on the test. And so you had that one on one moment and you heard probably more information from listening to them explain the math problem. Then you had they just kind of muddled through on their own. Right. And it very much felt like there was a culture in your classroom of everybody gets what they need. You'd, that's not going to be the same. We're all doing our own, like, path. And it felt supportive. So that's, that's kudos to you. Because it's a hard, that's a hard culture and to kind of set up in a classroom, it is,
Tammy Clingenpeel:it's been very challenging for me to step back and accept that, for example, with math last year, I have one student, if I just gave them the test to do it, they would go and they would do their task. But then it would be like 75%, wrong. But then I started saying, Okay, I would like you to go and do this one problem at a time and come see me. And then the, the task was then getting done, where 75% of the test was correct. You know, or, Hey, how about we use graph paper so that we do one number per box, and we have everything lined up? And then we'll check it like this. And so I'm just having to learn how to make accommodations for each student, and yet still continue with the content content? And I don't know meeting everybody's needs. It's, it's become quite a challenge, you know?
Ashley O'Neil:Yeah. I imagine now, your report cards, what are your report cards look like for school? Because those aren't your like those come from your school, there's got to be some uniformity there. Right?
Tammy Clingenpeel:Right, my report cards are done there via the computer. So they're just generated with each subject, and then their grade through the office. So I put all my grades online, and then the office pulls them.
Ashley O'Neil:And it's the parents then see like A, B or like a 1234.
Unknown:They see the the percentage grade, and then the percentage grade key is at the bottom. Okay?
Ashley O'Neil:And can parents communicate with you? During the semester, like Johnny's so far, like currently getting with a C in our class and math? Yes, I get that.
Unknown:I sent home a report every Sunday, I make sure all grades for the week have been entered into the computer. And then I send an email with each grade subject. Each subject great
Ashley O'Neil:to each parent. Okay, so they can see that that's alright, so my question for you is, what advice would you give a pre service teacher, so someone pre service or like young new, who's feeling overwhelmed by assessment, and learning with their students? No.
Unknown:Take it slow. Don't try to be that person who can do it all in the first year of teaching. I mean, I've been teaching at this school for just 29 years. And it's taking me a long time, and I'm still learning, you know, I still go to my daughter, who is been teaching for like, less than 10 years, and I go to her for help still, with the new things that are happening, you know, I was, I finished college a long time ago, there are new changes out there, things that are happening. And so take it slow, and get to know your students before you try to do too many changes at once. You know, go with what you know, and then slowly make these changes. And I think the biggest key is getting to know your students and where they are, and how to help them. You know, and don't be afraid to ask for help. You know, we've had teachers before who were afraid to ask for help, and then they fall into trouble. You need to ask for help, because otherwise, your students in the long run are going to suffer. And that's the problem right there because we're there to help them. And sometimes that's hard to ask for help. But I've learned one, you need to ask for help. Because if you're not getting the help you need, you can't help the students with what they need. I think that's the biggest thing.
Ashley O'Neil:Oh, that's perfect. Amy, thank you. I think one of the things I like about I, I haven't been in the classroom in a bit. But when I was in the classroom, how you approach assessment reminds me of how I did it in my own classroom, which is like, when is there really a summative assessment, right? Like when is there really like teachers fully hands off and this isn't a moment to learn. And I feel like you you continually approach your assessments as I want to bring out the best in my student and if that means taking a minute to clarify and doing a little accommodating learning here to bring out the best in them. I'm going to do that. And I think that that's just such a great way to approach things. So thank you. Well, thank you. This has been another episode of teach wonder if you found value in what you heard today. We'd love it if you share this episode with a friend or colleague. You can find more out about our center by visiting cms.edu/timid or by checking us out on social media where you can find us at see IC h c e s e full episodes with transcripts are available on our website thanks for listening